More Than Medicine
More Than Medicine
DWDP - Gen 4-1 God Opens the Womb
Eve's simple declaration after giving birth to Cain—"I have gotten a man-child with the help of the Lord"—reveals a profound theological truth that modern society has largely forgotten: God alone opens and closes the womb. In this thought-provoking episode, Dr. Robert Jackson and his wife Carlotta trace this understanding through Scripture, examining how women like Sarah, Rachel, Leah, and Hannah all discovered this reality through their own struggles with fertility.
Against this biblical backdrop, the Jacksons examine our current global fertility crisis. With birth rates plummeting worldwide—Vietnam abandoning its two-child policy, the United States hovering at just 1.62 children per woman, and aging populations threatening economic stability across developed nations—we're witnessing the consequences of viewing children as burdens rather than blessings.
What's driving this decline? The Jacksons identify three cultural forces: widespread birth control, women prioritizing careers over motherhood, and rampant materialism that calculates children primarily as financial liabilities. These forces directly contradict Scripture's consistent portrayal of children as divine gifts (Psalm 127:3-5).
The conversation takes a personal turn when Carlotta, herself highly educated with numerous professional opportunities, shares why she chose to be a stay-at-home mother of nine children. Her counter-cultural decision wasn't always easy, but it was grounded in faith rather than fear—a perspective she passionately encourages younger women to embrace.
This episode challenges listeners to reconsider whether our attitudes toward family planning reflect biblical wisdom or merely cultural conditioning. When Pope Francis observes that "birth rates reveal how much happiness is present in society," he highlights what might be the most overlooked truth in our discussions about fertility: our willingness to welcome children reveals much about our faith, values, and ultimate source of security.
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Welcome to More Than Medicine, where Jesus is more than enough for the ills that plague our culture and our country, hosted by author and physician Dr Robert Jackson Papa, can you tell me a story?
Speaker 2:Do you really want me to tell you a story? Well, you go, get your brother and your sisters and I will tell you a story. Well, you go, get your brother and your sisters and I will tell you a story. Welcome to Devotions with Dr Papa. Gather around, grab your Bibles and let us look into the written Word, which reveals to us the living Word, which is our Lord Jesus Christ.
Speaker 2:Well, today we're in Genesis, chapter 4. We've finally gotten to chapter 4. And we're looking at verse 1 in Genesis, chapter 4. Now the man had relations with his wife, eve, and she conceived and gave birth to Cain, and she said I have gotten a man-child with the help of the Lord, despite the pain that God promised would be associated with child-bearing as a consequence of the cursed, eve rejoiced at holding a son in her arms and she praised God for his help and his assistance in having slash bearing a man-child. In praising God, she acknowledges that God is the giver of life and that ultimately, god opens and closes the womb. Now that brings a question to mind who else learned that very same lesson? Now I have with me today my lovely bride, miss Carlotta, hello everyone. So I'm going to throw that question over to Miss Carlotta and I'm going to let her answer that question. Who else learned that lesson? That same lesson that Eve learned, but many, many years later?
Speaker 1:Well, we have in Scripture Genesis 16, 2, just a few chapters later, where it says so Sarah said to Abram Now behold, the Lord has prevented me from bearing children, so he had closed her womb.
Speaker 2:And then, a few chapters later, in Genesis 21, verse 1 and 2, Now, if y'all will remember, god had promised to Abraham and Sarah that they would have a child, but many years had transpired and that promise had not come true. And so, finally, in Genesis, chapter 21, the Lord took note of Sarah, took note of the fact that she was barren, that she had not born a child, despite the promise of God, despite the promise that he had given to the both of them. And the Lord did for Sarah as he had promised, and God opened her womb, and the Bible says so Sarah conceived. Now let's move forward in the scriptures and we'll go from Abraham to Isaac, then to Jacob, and in Genesis, chapter 29 and verse 31.
Speaker 1:I'll read it Alright go, ms Carlotta. Now the Lord saw that Leah was unloved and he opened her womb. But Rachel was barren.
Speaker 2:Now, if you remember, jacob's father-in-law, laban, had deceived Jacob. He thought he was going to marry the second daughter, Rachel, whom he genuinely loved. Laban deceived him on his wedding night and gave him the older daughter, leah. Jacob had to work seven more years in order to obtain Rachel, the number two daughter, and this scripture tells us that Leah conceived, she bore a child, god opened her womb and then, in Genesis, chapter 30, verses 1 and 2, ms Carlotta.
Speaker 1:Now, when Rachel saw that she bore Jacob no children, she became jealous of her sister and she said to Jacob give me children or else I die. Then Jacob's anger burned against Rachel and he said am I in the place of God who has withheld from you the fruit of the?
Speaker 2:womb. Now, a little family conflict here, a little dialogue, a heated dialogue between husband and wife, and she challenges her husband that he should give her an offspring, and he responds saying am I in the place of God that I should give you a child? Now, that's a very important statement and we have to wrap our mind around this, because Jacob acknowledges that it's only God who opens and closes the womb. God is the sovereign Lord of the universe, the Lord, god Almighty, the God of the heavens and the earth, and it is he alone who opens and closes the womb. Now fast forward a little bit to Genesis, chapter 30 and verse 22.
Speaker 1:Then God remembered Rachel, and God gave heed to her and opened her womb.
Speaker 2:So God, ultimately, is the one who opens and closes the womb. Now, when we say that, we have to understand that when Rachel prayed, it was God who heard her prayer and it was God who listened to her prayer and it was God who opened her womb in answer to her prayer. And if you remember, many years later, when Hannah went to the tabernacle to pray because she also was barren and she was kneeling at the altar there and praying and Eli the priest accuses her of being a wicked, intoxicated woman, when he sees her lips moving, but no word, no sound coming from her mouth, and she says no, no, I'm not a wicked woman, but I am a woman in distress. She explains her situation to Eli the priest and he says to her go your way, and this time next year you will have a child, I think. He explicitly says a son. And, sure enough, a year later, in answer to her prayer, hannah bore a son named Samuel. Samuel, that's right, samuel. And so and Samuel became one of the great judges, the great deliverers in Israel, the history of Israel, so much so that much, much listen to the prayer of this people. God puts Samuel in the same category with Moses.
Speaker 2:So listen, why would Hannah pray, why would Rachel pray, if it were not God who opens and closes the womb? Why do we pray today for young women who cannot conceive if it were not a sovereign God in heaven who opens and closes the womb? You see, my patients spend thousands of dollars trying to achieve a pregnancy at the fertility specialist, sometimes to no avail. And then, on the other hand, they try all measures of devices to avoid conception and they still end up pregnant. Why is that, dear listener? Because, you see, it is God who opens and closes the womb. Now let's look at another scripture in Psalms, chapter 139, verses 13 to 16. And I'm going to ask Ms Jackson if she would read those few verses for us again.
Speaker 1:For thou didst form my inward parts, thou didst weave me in my mother's womb. I will give thanks to thee, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made. Wonderful are thy works, and my soul knows it very well. My frame was not hidden from thee when I was made in secret and skillfully wrought in the depths of the earth.
Speaker 2:Thine eyes have seen my unformed substance.
Speaker 2:Now, you see, the psalmist understood that it was the sovereign hand of God that weaved his unformed substance in his mother's womb, that his inward parts were formed by the mighty hand of God and that he was compelledfully and wonderfully made, and that his soul knew very well that his frame was not hidden from God when it was made in the secret place that he had been skillfully wrought in the depths of his mother's womb.
Speaker 2:David knew that and he didn't have to be divinely informed. Every individual knows that little babies come from their mother's womb and that it's a miraculous thing when those little babies come into the sunshine and are held in their father's arms and they look into their eyes and all of a sudden realize that they have to be a father and they have to care for this innocent little child that just stare at them with blinking eyes and they realize, oh my goodness, I'm a dad. And what am I supposed to do with this little baby that is fearfully and wonderfully made? Now I want us to talk about an article that Ms Carlotta and I just read recently in a Breakpoint article by John Stone Street just earlier this month actually and it talked about the situation in Vietnam. Would you like to help us out with that, ms Jackson?
Speaker 1:Well, early this month Vietnam scrapped its longstanding two-child policy. That has tanked the nation's birth rate and threatened its economic stability. And that's a quote by John Stone Street. They are having a birth rate of 1.91 children per woman in Vietnam. So it's below the replacement, but above much of the Western world. What I mean by replacement rate. They think that 2.7 children is a replacement rate, so 1.91 is below the replacement rate. In fact it's very interesting to look at the worldometer Everyone should go and look at it to see what the population statistics are for every country in the world and it actually says their birth rate is 1.88 children per woman, not 1.91. But their loss of population is an existential threat to them because they won't have people who will support the senior citizens, they won't have workers. That's right.
Speaker 1:Their economy will fall.
Speaker 2:That's right.
Speaker 1:And this is true of most countries in this chart that I saw on Worldometer today.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and what's happening is that national attempts to control fertility have really not worked, and it's just as doubtful that financial incentives and appeals to national identity will work to reverse the trend. Now, why is that? Well, it's because of cultural trends, and those cultural trends are the invention of birth control, the pushing of women into the marketplace and pushing women into careers, and materialism. Those are three things that are cultural trends that are simply going to continue to push the birth rate down, down, down, and not just in Vietnam, but all across the Western world, and even in the United States there was not a single country increasing in their fertility rate that I saw, that's right, and there are lots of countries that don't have any kind of coercive one child per family, birth control, birth coercion like China and Vietnam and like India had for 20 years.
Speaker 2:But there are external pressures that are pushing the birth rates down in so many nations and those external cultural policies are birth control, women going into the working world, the marketplace and materialism. And we'll get to some of that more in a minute. But let me just read a couple of paragraphs from John Stone Street and you'll understand a little more. He says there are many theories why fertility rates have been falling, especially across Western nations. Affluent and educated women in the West have long been told to not want children because children will interfere with their freedom, their careers, lifestyle choices and personal happiness. Some studies also point to a gender gap in which women want babies but men do not. Thankfully, that trend seems to be changing. In short, ideas can be just as powerful as coercive policy when it comes to reducing fertility. Whether those ideas promise happiness and fulfillment or a way of saving the planet from an ecological crisis makes no difference. In the end, the result is still a crisis that will manifest both in economics and national security. In his magisterial work the Way of the Modern World. Regent College Professor Craig Gay noted that as the world became more godless and secular in the modern period, its values changed. Prioritized above all else, Dr Gay argued, were the values of convenience, efficiency and choice, each of which implied a level of control that humans, whether individuals or governments, could exert over nature. This is our world, not God's, and we should live like it. In no area of human interaction has this been more evident than in the realm of human procreation. Decisions about family and having children are almost exclusively understood as matters of personal or, in the cases of China and Vietnam, state choice. This is the precise opposite of thinking of children as blessings and our decisions to have them in light of our responsibilities as human beings in particular times and places. The. The narrative that children are a matter of choice is often couched in promises of freedom and autonomy, but like the false narrative of overpopulation, this one has also proved to be flatly wrong.
Speaker 2:In the University of Chicago's General Social Survey for 2022, almost 40% of married women with children described themselves as very happy, a number significantly higher than any other group of women. Less than 22% of unmarried women without children felt the same way, and unmarried women with children were the least likely to say they were very happy, at just over 16%. As my colleague, Shane Morris put it in a recent Breakpoint commentary, the cultural impression that diapers and demands of little ones rob people of joy is simply wrong. Children are a gift from God. That's a fact of reality, not mere religious opinion. Those individuals and societies that embrace children, despite the obstacles and challenges that come with them, will flourish. Those that reject children cannot and will not. That comes from John Stonestreet, from Breakpointorg, and to all of that I say a hearty amen. Now, Ms Jackson, you had a few comments about none other than Elon Musk, Ms Jackson.
Speaker 1:You had a few comments about none other than Elon Musk. Yes, I did read an article and I think everyone probably has heard, no matter what you think about Elon Musk, and we don't recommend his adultery and fathering 14 children, I think, with six women. I do find his comments fascinating, where he himself says that unless we have more children, then we're not going to replace ourselves and we're going to have a big problem in the future. I am trying to find the exact article. Yeah, he urges parents to have at least three children, compensate for those choosing to remain childless, because we need to replace ourselves with 2.7 children per woman, and he said that he was doing his contribution.
Speaker 2:In a bizarre sort of way.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Well, you know, the first command in Scripture that God gave to man was in Genesis, chapter 1 and verse 28, where he said Be fruitful and multiply, speaking to humans and also to the animals, and to fill the earth and to subdue it. And has God ever rescinded this command anywhere in Scripture? I haven't read it. No, it's not there. It's not there. It's not there. But you see, there's a cultural bias against children and against childbearing. Jesus welcomed the little children into his arms and yet our society views children as a liability rather than a blessing. And yet what does the Scripture say in Psalms 127, verse 3 and 5?
Speaker 1:Behold, children are a gift of the Lord. The fruit of the womb is a reward, Like arrows in the hand of a warrior. So are the children of one's youth. How blessed is the man whose quiver is full of them. They shall not be ashamed when they speak with their enemies in the gate.
Speaker 2:Well, my goodness darling, we've got nine children. You think our quiver is pert near full? It is.
Speaker 1:But I know people with more.
Speaker 2:We know people with more. Is that right? And sometimes I'm jealous because I miss having little children in our house.
Speaker 1:Oh we have little children in our house. We have grandchildren now, don't we? Yeah, how many. We just had the 19th last week and the 20th is already on the way.
Speaker 2:How about that? Praise God, hallelujah. Now, what was Psalms 128 and verse 3?
Speaker 1:Your wife shall be like a fruitful vine within your house. Your children like olive plants around your table.
Speaker 2:That's right. We used to pray for those little olive plants around our table, didn't we? That they would grow and flourish. That's right. They would grow strong and straight, and true. And I still remember when one of my children came to me and said Dad, I know where you got that prayer from. I said what prayer About the olive plants? I said where from? He said in the book of Psalms. I just read it the other day. Well now, what's the birth rate in the United States, darling, do you?
Speaker 1:know, According to the Worldometer it's 1.62, with a median age, and this is what struck me with the age of 38.5. The average age of Americans is 38.5. Japan's was almost 50.
Speaker 2:My goodness.
Speaker 1:Japan has an aging culture they sure do.
Speaker 2:Well, and what's the replacement rate? 2.7 yeah we need to have 2.7 per family just to replace our population. I mean, who's could take care of us old people? If there's nobody having any babies, who's going to pay into social?
Speaker 1:security. That's right, exactly right. He's going to pay into Social Security. That's right, exactly right. He's going to take care of us. You and I have nine children to take care of us.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's why I had so many. I knew I needed somebody to take care of you and me All right. Now, what do young couples say, Carlotta, when we ask them why they don't want more children?
Speaker 1:I think for most of them it comes down to money. Yeah, it's a financial calculation, isn't it that children cost too much, that they can't afford them. They can't send them to college, they won't be able to afford the house of their dreams, or she won't be able to go to work and earn a career anymore.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I ask my patients, my young couples that come to see me in my office. I often ask them why aren't you going to have more than one or two children? These are exactly the things they say to me, and it always boils down to a financial calculation. And you know, and really more than that, it's a faith issue. You know, I heard a guy say to me one time that where God gives children, god gives meat, which really means that when God gives us children, he's going to provide for us. Whether you're rich or poor, whether you're educated or not, it doesn't matter what your position in life is. When God gives you children, as long as you're trusting in God, he's going to give you the financial resources with which to care for them.
Speaker 1:And what's the other quote that we used to tell ourselves? When the man showed up at a home in England, he saw all the children in the home and the man said these are they that make a rich man poor? And the father said, no, these are they that make a poor man rich Exactly right, that's right.
Speaker 2:And we're rich in children, aren't we darling? We are, and thank the Lord for every one of them.
Speaker 1:And you know I want to say something here. Some people might look at us and say well, your husband's a physician, y'all can afford children. I have lots of friends who have more children than we have and who live on a dime and they're making it and their homes are happy homes. They may be more crowded, they may not eat steak every week, they may not go out to the finest restaurants Neither do we but they love their children and they are glad they did it.
Speaker 2:They have no regrets, that's right, they're not professional people, but God provides for them, that's right.
Speaker 2:Exactly right. They're being obedient to God's command and God provides for them Exactly Now. Ms Jackson, you graduated sixth in your high school class and with high honors, magna cum laude from Clemson. Matter of fact, you graduated from Clemson with grades better than I did. You were a missionary in the Middle East for two years. You taught nursing at the college level. You were a home health nurse, you were a CCU nurse, you started out on your master's and now here you are, the mother of nine children and grandmother for 19 children. What persuaded you to be a stay-at-home mom? I mean, you could have been anything you wanted to be darling. You could have been a doctor. You could have been an administrator of a college-level nursing program. What made you stay home and be a mom?
Speaker 1:I think that when I see my little granddaughters play with the baby dolls, just like I did at their age, I have a picture of me staying in front of Christmas tree with the baby doll. I really believe the Lord puts it into our hearts to want to be a mom and somehow a wife and a mom. And somehow I did not allow the culture to change that desire in my heart. I always I wanted to be a nurse but also more than anything, knew I wanted to be a wife and a mom all of my life and to stay at home and make a home.
Speaker 2:I keep her at home. You know what the Bible calls it. That's right, I keep her at home. That's right. That's right. I tell my young moms that the greatest job in the universe is being a mom and I tell them don't let anything distract you from that. Well, how many kids did you want in the very beginning?
Speaker 1:You are from a family of four and I'm from a family of four, so we thought we would have four, right?
Speaker 2:yeah, we did. Well, what changed?
Speaker 1:that somewhere along about the third child, we started being exposed to larger families yeah, we did, we read a book or two I cannot remember the names of those books and we were just exposed to counter-cultural thinking and we began to realize that we had been raised in a culture that encouraged women to work, encouraged women to limit their family size, and we decided that that was not biblical.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we did, didn't we?
Speaker 1:And so we decided to throw away the birth control and that we would allow the Lord to give us as many children as he would allow us to have.
Speaker 2:So would you say that you embraced the notion of God controlling your procreativity rather than self-control?
Speaker 1:I don't know that. I would say I embraced it. Sometimes it was hard to be pregnant again, but I had the desire to be obedient.
Speaker 2:Well, what did all that do for your attitude towards childbearing?
Speaker 1:I didn't, I was not afraid.
Speaker 2:That's right there was no fear.
Speaker 1:There really wasn't. I was not afraid to get pregnant Sometimes. I just didn't want to be pregnant again just because I was. It's physically hard, physically hard, but I just didn't want to be pregnant again just because I was Physically hard. Physically hard, but I was not afraid. I was not afraid of what would happen. I mean, our sixth child had special needs, was physically ill and I could have been afraid.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And I could have been afraid of what people might have said and I'm sure they did say things behind our back never to our face, but maybe behind our back. But the Lord took away that fear and I'm so glad that he helped me to trust Him and lean not on my own understanding.
Speaker 2:That's right.
Speaker 1:Because my understanding was having been raised in a time of one of the waves of feminism and going to work and having a career. But God gave me a better understanding and I happen to believe that it happened to be a biblical understanding of how he views children.
Speaker 2:Now what do you, as a mother of nine children and 19 grandchildren, have to say to young moms out there?
Speaker 1:Don't be afraid, it is a matter of faith.
Speaker 2:It is a matter of faith, isn't it?
Speaker 1:Yes it is. And don't listen to the world. Get off your phones, don't listen to social media. We read another article by Breakpoint that talked about the influence of TikTok, and though no one would tell you, don't have children there are all kinds of subtle suggestions through media that would encourage you to want a bigger home, to be envious of someone who has things that you don't have and therefore you need to go to work to have those things are to have. Provide all the opportunities for your child so that they can go to the best school or most expensive school in the country and have a coveted degree from some higher level higher level college.
Speaker 1:and I just um, I just wanted the Lord's will to be done in my life and and I'm willing to be obedient and I decided that that was better than all of the other stuff and all the um things of this world.
Speaker 2:Yeah, now, last question, we'll be done. What was your emotional response to Eve, the mother of all the living, when you read her statement? I have gotten a man-child with the help of the Lord.
Speaker 1:Well, she recognized who was in charge, didn't she? Yeah, and I admire her and I thought, yeah, eve, go, eve, you understand, you get it.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And I encourage you women to get it, to get what the Word of God has to say about rejoicing in having children and to consider them a blessing. And Eve recognized that, that it was a blessing.
Speaker 2:And she rejoiced in her first child, she rejoiced in her second child, and you and I should always rejoice in having children and she probably had more children.
Speaker 1:We just don't know who they are. She probably wasn't done she probably wasn't done, was she? I'm confident she was not done all right, I don't think god limited her to two children at the very beginning? I doubt it.
Speaker 2:I doubt she lived a long time. I'm satisfied. I mean Adam lived a whole pile of years.
Speaker 1:If you understand the beginning, you have to realize that Cain and Abel married their sister. That's right. The gene pool was pure.
Speaker 2:That's right, it was pure.
Speaker 1:And there were no other people. That's right.
Speaker 2:Exactly right, all right. Well, look, our time is up, darling. I appreciate you being on more on devotions with Dr Papa. I'm delighted to have you.
Speaker 1:Thank you for letting me talk there just at the end, all right.
Speaker 2:Well, you're listening to devotions with Dr Papa.
Speaker 1:I want to recommend a book.
Speaker 1:Okay, go for it I just started it and I thought, oh my, I should have read this book before we did this podcast. I don't know, I have not read it. I read a few pages today, but it's by Timothy Carney and I must have seen it in some article, read about it and ordered it. It's called Family Unfriendly how Our Culture Made Raising Kids Much Harder Than it Needs to Be. Unfriendly how our culture made raising kids much harder than it needs to be. And I want to read a quote. I don't quote Pope Francis very often, but he said this and this would be a good way to close us out. Birth rates and a welcoming attitude reveal how much happiness is present in society. A happy community naturally develops the desire to generate and welcome others, while an unhappy society is reduced to a group of individuals defending what they have at all costs.
Speaker 2:Oh, very interesting quote, isn't it?
Speaker 1:Yeah, and some research this man did. Who wrote the book Happier men and women prefer to Become Parents Sooner, how about that?
Speaker 2:How about that? Okay, tell us the title of the book again Family.
Speaker 1:Unfriendly.
Speaker 2:And it's by a man named.
Speaker 1:Timothy Carney C-A-R-N-E-Y.
Speaker 2:Good enough, all right, you're listening to Devotions with Dr Papa. I'll be back again next week. Until then, may the Lord bless you real good.
Speaker 3:Thank you for listening to this edition of More Than Medicine. For more information about the Jackson Family Ministry or to schedule a speaking engagement, go to their Facebook page, instagram or webpage at jacksonfamilyministrycom. Also, don't forget to check out Dr Jackson's books that are available on Amazon His third book Turkey Tales and Bible Truths, and his father's biography on Laughter Silvered Wings the story of a country doctor, a family man, a patriot and a political activist. This podcast is produced by Bob Sloan Audio Productions.
