More Than Medicine
More Than Medicine
MTM - Interview with Dr. Bose Ravenel
What happens when a respected pediatrician with nearly five decades of experience begins to question everything he was taught about vaccines? Dr. Bose Ravenel joins Dr. Robert Jackson to share a professional journey that upends conventional wisdom about childhood immunizations.
After practicing traditional pediatrics for 31 years and academic medicine for 11 more, Dr. Ravenel's final six years in integrative medicine opened his eyes to patterns he could no longer ignore. He describes treating numerous children with autism whose parents consistently reported regression following vaccination—including one remarkable case where a hospital neurologist explicitly attributed a child's autistic regression to vaccines.
The conversation takes a fascinating turn as Dr. Ravenel explains how the COVID pandemic response first triggered his skepticism. "Nothing like that had ever happened before in history," he observes about the unprecedented vaccine mandates and public shaming campaigns. This initial suspicion led him to invest thousands of hours researching childhood vaccines, where he discovered disturbing gaps in safety testing.
Most striking is the revelation that no vaccine on the childhood schedule has ever been properly tested against an inert placebo, and claims of studies disproving vaccine-autism links examine only a fraction of the potential connections. Dr. Ravenel also discusses compelling research showing a striking temporal correlation between vaccination timing and SIDS deaths.
This eye-opening discussion challenges listeners to question why such information remains marginalized in medical discourse. Both physicians express concern that pharmaceutical industry influence prevents honest examination of vaccine risks, while emphasizing their commitment to sharing information parents need for making informed decisions about their children's health.
Share this episode with anyone concerned about vaccine safety or interested in understanding why some medical professionals are breaking ranks to question long-held assumptions about childhood immunization programs.
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Welcome to More Than Medicine, where Jesus is more than enough for the ills that plague our culture and our country. Hosted by author and physician, dr Robert Jackson, and his wife Carlotta and daughter Hannah Miller. So listen up, because the doctor is in.
Dr.Robert Jackson:Welcome to More Than Medicine. I'm your host, Dr Robert Jackson, bringing to you biblical insights and stories from the country doctor's rusty, dusty scrapbook. Well, I'm privileged today to have Dr Bose Ravenel as my guest. Dr Ravenel, welcome to More Than Medicine.
Dr. Bose Ravenel:Glad to be here and join you Well.
Dr.Robert Jackson:I'm delighted to have Than Medicine. Glad to be here and join you Well.
Dr. Bose Ravenel:I'm delighted to have you today and if you will tell my listeners a little bit about who you are and what you used to do and what you do now, and a little bit about your background, Sure, I'm a pediatrician retired on the day of the COVID shutdown of our retirement community where I live, after 49 years as a pediatrician, and I happened to train at Johns Hopkins, which will be relevant later to some of the conversation but I had ended up in private practice for 31 years and went into academic pediatrics for 11 years for reasons unrelated to medicine, which I enjoyed, and then after that, ended up deciding to plunge into integrated medicine or functional medicine, root cause-based medicine and did that for six and a half years.
Dr. Bose Ravenel:That was until the day of the 2020 in March when the pandemic started and the community I was living in shut down. So that's in the integrated timeframe that six years. I learned more about medicine and things I never knew during those six years than I had in 31 years before, ever knew during those six years than I had in 31 years before, and it was able to have the privilege of working with a large number of chronically ill children with the most amazing positive experiences I've ever had in 31 years before in those six years.
Dr.Robert Jackson:Well, I'm delighted to hear that I really am All right. Well, the reason I'm calling you today to be on my program is because of a recent, I guess, a blog post about a connection between vaccines and autism that I saw and I really wanted to ask you to comment about that. And I really wanted to ask you to comment about that and I guess, before we even begin that, I want to ask you to, in layman's turn, explain to my listening audience what autism is.
Dr. Bose Ravenel:Sure in the media today is the fact that, accurately, it's pointed out that it's a behavior diagnosis or a. It's an observation diagnosis. It's not a can't do a lab test there's no single lab test whatever. But what it really is it was, I think dr can, 1942 or so, described the original case of what was years later perceived to be the first case of full-blown autism, not to be distinguished from mild spectrum, where somebody's a little quirky in their adulthood and they're called autism spectrum. But classic autism primarily is in the case of children and that's when it mostly occurs. It's a sudden onset of loss of previously achieved milestones, usually in language, sometimes in motor, but usually in language, and it is more often than not dramatic. And it is more often than not dramatic and then that's followed by a variety, or accompanied by a variety of physical manifestations that are characterized to occur in conjunction with the neurological effects of whatever it is that produces that clinical picture that consists of gastrointestinal symptoms, sometimes immune system abnormalities, and so on.
Dr.Robert Jackson:Now, what are some of the neurologic symptoms that are typical of autistic?
Dr. Bose Ravenel:The biggest one that clearly would be language. An example I'll give you is when I was in the integrated practice. Early in that time I had a referral. A parent called and said that their child had been admitted to the nearby medical center an academic medical center for evaluation, after getting, I think, an MMR, a couple of other shots, had a well-baby visit I'm thinking the baby may have been 18 months or whatever and immediately after that completely lost, within days, the milestones the child had before, socially and stopped eating. All kinds of problems Make a long story short, was it went to the emergency room at a nearby medical center, discharged home with presumed uh, just transient type thing.
Dr. Bose Ravenel:They couldn't explain. It Got worse, went back, was admitted for a week, evaluated and the neurologist at the hospital told the parents your child has had an autistic regression caused by the vaccines and we don't recommend you get any more vaccines unless your pediatrician will endorse that. They then went home and to their local physician in a nearby community that I won't name. The pediatrician agreed. The history was so classic for what is written about sudden loss of previously gained milestones that they didn't think it should be done and asked me for another opinion which I, having worked with about 30 or 40 families with autistic children, agreed and that child never got any more vaccines and that child never got any more vaccines.
Dr.Robert Jackson:Now some of the children that I see with autistic symptoms exhibit odd behavior, such as flapping of their arms and social awkwardness as they get older. Did you ever see this child do any of that?
Dr. Bose Ravenel:Yes, yes, that is classic. Actually, this particular child also not only had the reversal of previously gained language, but was just not responding socially dramatically differently than it had been before the shots.
Dr.Robert Jackson:Not making eye contact, that sort of thing.
Dr. Bose Ravenel:Correct, correct, not making eye contact, that sort of thing, correct. Correct, as well as some stereotypical motor movements is a medical term meaning kind of uncontrolled movements and, as you said, even some people call autistic type flapping an unusual kind of a flapping motion of the hands.
Dr.Robert Jackson:Right, one of my boys was low IQ and had multiple issues when he was born and he did that flapping motion of his arms. But he eventually outgrew that and I thought, as he was younger, that he was autistic. But he never did become autistic and he's very socially connected as he grew older so the concerns about autism never developed. But it was interesting that when he was younger he had that flapping movement of his arms. He obviously had some neurologic issues early on, but then he kind of grew out of them All right. So let me go to my next question then. I'm sure that, like me, you promoted childhood vaccines early on in your medical career. And what? What did you? When did you first begin to, when did you first begin to have suspicions that pediatric vaccines were not safe for children, and what opened your eyes to that fact?
Dr. Bose Ravenel:That's a great question and, as you said, prior to my integrating final six years of my clinical practice, years out of those 49 years prior to that, I had never seriously questioned the idea that, general speaking, the childhood vaccines were invariably effective, but at least effective. And although there's no such thing as a quote unqualified, safe and effective vaccine or drug there's no such thing. They're not safe, never has been, never will be one. They're not natural. Therefore, any of them has side effect listed. So the safe and effective label is a propaganda term, is not reality. But I never suspected anything out of the usual until when the COVID pandemic broke out and, by the way, our children had all their vaccines that were recommended at the time. I did until later in my life when I realized that things aren't as they appear to be. But what opened my eyes was the bizarre, never before imagined, let alone seen, response to the availability of a new vaccine to treat SARS-CoV-2 infection, when SARS-CoV-2 is a coronavirus and the one thing that people need to realize is that COVID, which is a short term for coronavirus, in recorded history forever I mean decades, maybe 100 years of all colds, common colds. This is not even question debate, it's a fact. 20% of all cold calls forever have been coronavirus. There's nothing new under the sun.
Dr. Bose Ravenel:So immediately within weeks of the whole pandemic, I and a number of other individuals across the country were suspicious that something was weird going on here. Was suspicious that something was weird going on here. Something didn't add up. And then when they started talking about shutting down and wearing masks which had for decades been proven to be of no use whatsoever and preventing for viral transmission and the other evidence is overwhelming. Now they don't but requiring wearing masks which had previously been known to be ineffective, and then shutting down businesses and isolation. None of that had ever been adopted before in history. And then, even more bizarre, when I was looking up every day and you're seeing prominent spokespersons on the TV talking about shaming people who didn't take this vaccine that came out and offering bribes on the one hand, or shaming on the other, restricting privileges.
Dr. Bose Ravenel:Nothing like that had ever happened before, so I was suspicious from the very beginning.
Dr.Robert Jackson:Well, so was I, dr Ravenhill, so was I. Everything about it just smelled like a rat.
Dr. Bose Ravenel:Everything about it just was not normal out about individuals who had the vaccine and who died shortly after or not too long afterward, and the reports of the VAERS, which is the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System that the government set up to track bad outcomes from vaccines. It was their own creation and there were reports of deaths. It was their own creation and there were reports of deaths. And in the past, before the COVID outbreak, in the past 30 or 40 years, there have been maybe a couple or three vaccines where there have been one death or 10 deaths following the vaccine and they pulled the vaccine off the market immediately. That's right and in several cases, never even put it back on the market. That's right, and in several cases, never even put it back on the market. And here we were. Within months they're reporting hundreds of deaths, hundreds. That's when I knew this is absolutely something strange, bizarre, is totally out of sync here.
Dr.Robert Jackson:Well, and see, you're like myself and that's what prompted me to be suspicious of all vaccines, not just the COVID mRNA template. But I began to investigate all vaccines and I began to be suspicious because for the first time in my life, dr Ravenel, I didn't trust the CDC or the FDA or the NIH, because I'd always trusted those institutions. And then suddenly I realized they were not speaking the truth to medical doctors and I began to wonder well, what else were they not speaking truth about?
Dr. Bose Ravenel:That's exactly right. I had the same feeling. And then, in my case, I went from between my retirement date, on March 16th of 2020, and today. I have probably invested, I'd say, 6,000 hours of research, reading reports, papers, books I probably read 75 to 80 books in that period Thousands of papers on COVID, on vaccines, and as I began to branch into not only the COVID vaccine but for the first time, really seriously looking at the data, I was stunned.
Dr. Bose Ravenel:I mean, I was shocked to find out. I would read something like the following, and then I would go research it out and find it was true. Number one I learned that no vaccine on the childhood schedule had and still has never schedule had and still has never. Not one has ever been proven safe or effective. By comparison with an inert placebo, in other words, a dummy, where you don't know whether the patient got the vaccine or the dummy, Not one trial had ever been done comparing the two, and that's almost beyond comprehension.
Dr. Bose Ravenel:And then the second thing I learned was that, with regard to autism, once the COVID thing alerted us, we started digging deeper. The more you dig, the worse you find. And, in addition, no placebo-controlled trials had ever been done to discover that in the case of autism, the CDC had been saying forever that they've done dozens and hundreds of studies showing that vaccines don't cause autism. It turns out they had never even looked at data on any vaccine, other than one CDC-sponsored study to look at MMR vaccine and the other to be looking at one ingredient, thimerosal, which has mercury in it. Otherwise, there had never been a single attempt to study anything about autism and vaccines. So then I had to face the realization, as you did, that what we were being told over and over again by the CDC was simply bald-faced fiction. It just wasn't true, and is it?
Dr.Robert Jackson:Well, that's amazing because, you know, I looked up the pediatric vaccines and autism and when you look it up, there are dozens and dozens of entries that say pediatric vaccines do not cause autism, Pediatric vaccines no connection to autism. And there's just dozens of entries that say exactly that. You cannot find an entry anywhere that will say that there's any connection between a pediatric vaccine and autism. That's correct.
Dr. Bose Ravenel:And the worst part is that first of all, I want to throw this out what you hear very often when spokespeople are asked about that what is the relationship between vaccines and autism? What the mainstream medical organizations and the CDC and FDA spokespersons and all they say almost always they'll say. And FDA spokespersons and all they say almost always they'll say we don't know for sure what causes autism, when we know it's not vaccines. That's right.
Dr. Bose Ravenel:That first of all is a contradiction. It's a self-contradicting statement. It doesn't even make any sense. They don't know what causes it, but we know it's not so-and-so. It's not possible to know They've never done a study on it. That's right. It's not possible to know they never done a study on it.
Dr. Bose Ravenel:And then I learned that the CDC-sponsored study looking at MMR back in about 2005, whenever it was, they actually published a paper that purported to prove that MMR did not cause autism. But it turned out. It became revealed by Whistleblower and Dr William Thompson that in fact the study the original data they had. They found that to their surprise that among the black population included in the study there was about a two and a half fold increase in autism among the kids. They were comparing children who got the NMR vaccine before their third birthday or after the third birthday. In other words, some of them had it delayed until after age three. Most of them got it when they were about a year old and the incidence of autism was two or three fold higher than the ones that got it earlier.
Dr. Bose Ravenel:And when they had that data they actually convened an emergency meeting at simpsonwood, georgia, which anybody who wants to explore that, if you can find it. You probably won't find it on google, which is censored that use DuckDuckGo or another search engine, which is another clue at its own. You will find Simpsonwood, georgia, where they came together the leaders of the CDC, the authors of the study and all that, and they brought all their data. They went through all this and they ended up finding that the group of subjects were the ones where the autism occurred, and so they decided to eliminate that group of subjects from the study. And before they published the data, they literally took the data and destroyed the papers and put them in a trash can.
Dr. Bose Ravenel:But one person at this meeting had kept his own copies at home and, to make a long story short, he ended up disclosing that to a reporter and then it became the subject of a congressional investigation. But the whistleblower, dr William Thompson, a CDC physician who wanted to tell the truth, was not legally able to testify to a congressional investigation William Congress and William Posey and he could not testify unless he was deposed and we're still waiting for that deposition. I mean subpoenaed he was. He was begging to be subpoenaed, but he's never been subpoenaed. It's been about 14 years now.
Dr. Bose Ravenel:So, the point is that the CDC study that they claimed and published, showing that alternatives not caused by the vaccines, actually showed the reverse.
Dr.Robert Jackson:I got you. Well, let me ask you this now In your personal medical practice, have you seen patients regress neurologically after a pediatric vaccine?
Dr. Bose Ravenel:No, and not in my clinical practice days, but I did in my integrative six years. I happened to end up having a large number of families seeking help with their autistic child because they heard integrative doctors usually are willing to look at things more objectively and look for root causes and one of those. I ended up probably working with 50 or 60 families with autistic kids and those parents. It was almost a broken record the story of regression after getting the vaccines until they were progressing fine until then. But then the key patient that I actually was involved with was the one I mentioned earlier in the introduction where the parents in a nearby community the child regressed, evaluated in a hospital, nearby medical center and even though I've never heard of any pediatrician in our area who would ever admit that any child developed progression after vaccines or reported For the fact that a medical center nearby, the neurologist told the mother your child had an autistic regression caused by the MMR vaccine, don't give another vaccine. That really got my attention.
Dr.Robert Jackson:My goodness, my goodness, all right. Well, let's jump to another track, then, because this is something that has happened in my medical practice many times, and that's the whole issue of sudden infant death syndrome after a vaccine. And in fact, this happened probably about six weeks ago. I had a grandmother in my office and she was just terribly distraught and I inquired about it and she told me about her two-month-old grandson who had just died suddenly. And I asked her, I said tell me what happened. And she immediately said he'd gotten his two-month-old immunization and two days later he just suddenly died. They just found him in the crib dead, and of course it was described as a SIDS death, and I didn't say anything to her about it, but I knew immediately that in my mind that it was connected to the vaccine. Now, in your medical practice, did you ever see SIDS deaths that were connected to vaccines?
Dr. Bose Ravenel:Well, I'm going to say yes and no, and let me explain what I mean by that. Did I ever see children who had SIDS, who had vaccines in some proximate period before that? Yes, I did, but at the time it didn't occur to me, nor did I suggest that the SIDS had anything to do with the vaccines. And if a occur to me, nor did I suggest that the SIDS had anything to do with the vaccines. And if a parent asked me I would have said it was just coincidental. But later on I began to really look back at it and see the research data and learn that there's a published paper analyzing SIDS deaths in a population. That was a subject of the paper published and they looked at the date at which the SIDS occurred in relationship to date of vaccination and a random event. Because if you walk outside and look up at the sky and then the next day you're in a car wreck, it doesn't mean looking at the sky caused the car wreck.
Dr. Bose Ravenel:Correlation does not equal causation. That's correct. However, random events ie dying suddenly, unexplained death following a vaccine or vaccines, random events if they're nothing to do with a cause, then that should occur at random times, from day one to two months later or six months later, a year. In other words they have no correlation of the time of the vaccine and the time of the event. But the data in this paper showed quite the opposite, showed there was a striking correlation where the closer to the date of vaccination was the number of SIDS deaths occurred Dramatically higher. Very close somewhat. So it was a curve that went down, down, down, down the further away from the date of vaccination you occurred.
Dr.Robert Jackson:So that is a very compelling epidemiological data that strongly suggests it calls a relationship and I've seen that study too, and it's very alarming to me that no one in the medical community is willing to sound the alarm and bring it to the attention of parents, and I'm alarmed that the medical community at large is not willing to discuss this publicly. But it's really suppressed. The whole issue of SIDS and vaccines is being suppressed, and I think it's being suppressed by the pharmaceutical industry because they make so much money from the vaccines.
Dr.Robert Jackson:They're not concerned about the well-being of children. They're just concerned about their wallets and their income.
Dr. Bose Ravenel:It's also being suppressed by the fact that professional organizations, including the American and Canada Pediatrics specifically I will mention them as well. They strongly discourage any pediatricians or family physicians, any medical professionals acknowledging any kind of relationship between vaccines and autism. They have no desire, not only no desire to talk about it, they suppress discussion about it.
Dr.Robert Jackson:It's because they're bought and paid for by the pharmaceutical industry.
Dr. Bose Ravenel:But the other thing about the SIDS that not only is the temporal relationship, that study done, but equally, if not more, incriminating is that there have been enough times as a suspicion began to be raised and, little by little, more and more physicians with the courage to speak out honestly and raise the concern about that possibility. They began looking at autopsies of some kids who had died of sids. Instead of a routine autopsy they had, they had uh expert medical experts who believe they were related and convinced the parents to press for and were successful, get the autopsy to do a variety of studies that would show changes that would be consistent with a vaccine injury and there was a handful of those. They were published as well, showing that what was ruled as SIDS once they got a more elaborate lab testing, blood testing and other pathological testing on the autopsy that it appeared that the vaccine was incriminating as a part of the cause of the death.
Dr.Robert Jackson:Well, I just pray that sometime, somewhere and somehow this information will come out. And that's why I do these podcasts, because I want my listeners, the parents and the grandparents, to know my concerns, to know your concerns, so that they will be concerned enough to avoid these pediatric vaccines. They're not safe, they're not effective and they're not necessary. I mean these childhood illnesses. They're gone. They've been gone since the 1950s due to improvements in sanitation and I really don't think the vaccines are necessary anymore. Well, dr Ravenel, I appreciate your time. Our time is running out for this podcast. Would you come back with me and discuss some of these issues again another day?
Dr. Bose Ravenel:Sure, I'll be happy to.
Dr.Robert Jackson:Well, I want you to know I appreciate your expertise, I appreciate your research and I'm sure my listeners appreciate hearing from you and I'd love to have you back again another time.
Dr. Bose Ravenel:All right, we'll do it, thank you.
Dr.Robert Jackson:All right, you're listening to More Than Medicine. My guest today is Dr Bose Ravenel, pediatric physician for more than 48 years, and I will have him back again another time. You're listening to More Than Medicine. I'm your host, dr Robert Jackson. We'll be back again next week. Between now and then, may the Lord bless you real good.
Speaker 1:Thank you for listening to this edition of More Than Medicine. For more information about the Jackson Family Ministry, dr Jackson's books, or to schedule a speaking engagement, go to their Facebook page, instagram or their webpage at jacksonfamilyministrycom. This podcast is produced by Bob Slone Audio Production at bobslone. com.
