More Than Medicine
More Than Medicine
MTM - Interview with SC Senator Shane Martin
Money, politics, and constitutional powers collide in this eye-opening conversation with South Carolina Senator Shane Martin about the recent controversy surrounding State Treasurer Curtis Loftis and a $1.8 billion accounting discrepancy.
Senator Martin provides a refreshingly straightforward explanation of what initially appeared to be missing funds but has since been revealed as an accounting error during the state's transition to a new financial system. "The money's not missing," Martin clarifies, likening the situation to writing a check and making a deposit without recording it properly. Two separate audits have confirmed no intentional wrongdoing occurred.
The conversation takes a fascinating turn as Martin delves into the rarely-used constitutional mechanism being employed to potentially remove an elected official from office. This process has only been attempted once before in South Carolina's 150-year history – also involving a state treasurer. Martin explains the required two-thirds majority vote, the right to defense, and the uncertain path forward as the House of Representatives decides whether to pursue the matter.
Beyond the procedural details, Martin offers thoughtful insights into the political dimensions driving the controversy. He suggests personality conflicts and policy disagreements may have fueled the push to remove Loftis, despite the absence of financial impropriety. The case raises profound questions about governmental accountability, the relationship between elected officials, and the balance of power in state government.
Have you ever wondered what happens when political tensions clash with financial oversight? Subscribe to More Than Medicine for more thought-provoking conversations that explore the intersection of governance, ethics, and public service.
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Welcome to More Than Medicine, where Jesus is more than enough for the ills that plague our culture and our country. Hosted by author and physician, dr Robert Jackson, and his wife Carlotta and daughter Hannah Miller. So listen up, because the doctor is in.
Dr. Robert Jackson:Welcome to More Than Medicine. I'm your host, dr Robert Jackson, bringing to you biblical insights and stories from the country doctor's rusty, dusty scrapbook. Well, I'm delighted today to have as my guest Senator Shane Martin, and we're going to talk a little bit about some of the goings-on in the South Carolina Senate this last week. Senator Martin, welcome to More Than Medicine.
Sen. Shane Martin:Dr Jackson, thank you for having me and, more than anything, thank you for sayinga prayer before we got started.
Dr. Robert Jackson:Sir, Well, I'm always delighted to do that. Well, first of all, I want you to tell my listening audience a little bit about yourself and what you do and the district you represent and how long you've been in the Senate.
Sen. Shane Martin:All righty Well. As he said, shane Martin represents Senate District 13 in the South Carolina Senate live in Spartanburg County and it encompasses eastern and southern Spartanburg County, the western five-eighths, including part of the city of Union, and four precincts over in greenville around the five forks bells crossing area that's a big district yes, sir, I got elected in 2008 and I've been serving in the senate since since then, so I finished my 16th year and I'm starting my 17th year. How?
Sen. Shane Martin:about that I'm on the finance committee in the Senate and medical affairs subcommittee, chairman of both of them, and then I chair the corrections and biology committee in the state Senate.
Dr. Robert Jackson:I got you. I got you what you do for a living. I know you don't make a living serving in the Senate.
Sen. Shane Martin:Well, no, sir, I'm luckily, you know, and that's something that we've been talking about a little bit you know I'm an engineer, I've got my own engineering business and thank the good Lord that I'm able to be a business owner. I can move my schedule around to where I can serve in the Senate, unless you're an attorney and own retainer or you're kind of independently wealthy. So for those of us that work a lot and juggle, I enjoy doing it, but I'm glad to make a difference.
Dr. Robert Jackson:Well, we appreciate your service. I want you to know that, because we know it's difficult, all right. Well, let me ask you this now Some of my listeners don't know what's been going on with Curtis Loftus.
Sen. Shane Martin:And tell me exactly what his position is. Well, Curtis Loftus is our treasurer. He's one of the I think we maybe have nine constitutional officers in the state. Okay, no, maybe not. Anyway, he's one of our several constitutional officers in the state.
Dr. Robert Jackson:And his position is an elected position.
Sen. Shane Martin:Yes, sir, it's a statewide elected position. He's elected at the same time the governor, lieutenant governor, the treasurer, the secretary of state, comptroller general, the attorney general, commissioner of agriculture. Yes, commissioner of Agriculture, and I hope I don't forget any more, but they're all elected at the same time.
Dr. Robert Jackson:So that's an important position that he holds and the issue that I understand it is there's a budget deficit or shortfall or discrepancy of $1.8 billion. Is that correct?
Sen. Shane Martin:Well, that's correct, and I think when it all started, nobody knew if it was a discrepancy or a deficit, or if the money was really there and what was going on with it. So I'll go ahead and lead into everything. It's been going on for a couple of years. So I'll go ahead and lead into everything. It's been going on for a couple of years. They've had, you know, we had our Comptroller General. Let me take another step back, dr Jackson.
Dr. Robert Jackson:Yeah, go back. You mentioned that. Explain all that so my listeners will understand Well I do.
Sen. Shane Martin:but I want to give the listeners another piece of this puzzle as well. Back when Nikki Haley was governor, she was touting that we were going to reform and make the Department of Administration and get rid of the evil Budget and Control Board. Well, the Budget and Control Board is the governor, the comptroller general, the treasurer, the chairman of Senate Finance and the chairman of House Ways and Means. Under this new thing where they eliminated the Budget and Control Board, they call it the State Fiscal Accountability Authority. But guess what?
Sen. Shane Martin:It's got the same five people the governor the comptroller general, the treasurer, the chairman of Senate Finance and the chairman of House Ways and Means. So that's what frustrates me sometimes in Columbia, when we're going to have this so-called reform but nothing really happens, but a few deck chairs get rearranged. So that's one of the things that, if you think about it, that's one of five on the vote when they have those meetings. So the comptroller general resigned, so the governor appointed, so there hadn't been another election yet. But if the treasurer were gone and the governor appointed, then you'd really have the governor had three people on there himself, think about it. So that that's one thing that never really even came up in any these hearings. But so they go in and they find out that the Comptroller General evidently made a lot of mistakes, or a lot of mistakes to be made. But there was a new computer system. I'm not making excuses, I'm just trying to tell the listeners really what's been going on but when they came out with this $1.8 billion, they claimed it was missing or something like this. So they had to get to the bottom of it, which is the correct thing to do. Well, through all this, fast forward the good thing for people that don't want to list all the way to the end.
Sen. Shane Martin:The $1.8 billion is mainly a discrepancy in accounting procedures, and the way it was explained in the hearing we had this past Monday on April 21st, was somebody wrote a check. They said they complained this to you at the house, like if you wrote a check for $100, but then you put in a deposit for $100, but you never made note that you put in the deposit of $100, when you should have been. Even you would look like you were negative $100. That's what happened here. So they showed email to where the treasurer was instructed to do this by the comptroller general and they did a really good job of explaining it as to why that discrepancy got done.
Sen. Shane Martin:In the meantime they switched over to a new accounting system in the state and that just compounded the problem. So the short answer is the money's not missing. But at the time when this really started going going, treasurer Loftus told a Senate committee, told a senator that's no longer with us that, yes, he could, he could show him that money, he could withdraw it and let him feel it, and that's what got people thinking. I think that maybe the treasurer was not knowing what he was doing or something happened. So that's kind of how we got to where we were.
Sen. Shane Martin:Monday they held a hearing, and I was glad they held a hearing because they asked me in another interview if I thought it was a waste of time and I said no, it's not a waste of time when something's been going on for over a year and there's finger pointing and blame and shifting. Then having a hearing to get to the bottom of everything I think is healthy.
Dr. Robert Jackson:Yeah, yeah. Well now weren't there two separate audits held that exonerated the previous comptroller and Mr Loftus, the treasurer?
Sen. Shane Martin:Yes, I think everybody was cleared of doing anything like. I don't want to say wrong, because there were mistakes that were made, but nobody did anything with intent to deceive or like they were trying to steal any money. That was not happening.
Dr. Robert Jackson:Right right.
Sen. Shane Martin:And that came up in the hearing as well. That got discussed a lot during the hearing.
Dr. Robert Jackson:Now why are folks so up in arms and angry at Mr Loftus if it's plain and obvious that there was nobody trying to steal or deceive?
Sen. Shane Martin:I think and again, this is probably it's going to seem weird in my answer, but I couldn't have answered this question before this hearing but me as an engineer, looking at it, it almost looks like okay, the comptroller general has some problems, he resigned. They appointed somebody different. I think that certain members of the General Assembly wanted the treasurer to resign and accept blame so everybody could move on. Well, the treasurer was like wait a minute, I wanted to work with everybody. I was willing. If there's three or four people involved or three or four offices involved, I'm willing to say hey, I'll accept 25%. But let's all pull together and work together and figure out what happened, instead of finger pointing and trying to get people fired or gone.
Sen. Shane Martin:And I think that's what happened. And then, on a personal level, I think you probably had some people that wanted to make a point. You probably had the treasurer that was tired of some of what he thought was a witch hunt and he probably said a few things in a certain way that got people mad and it just came down to that. But once the hearing was there and all the facts were presented, it was clear to me that there was no way I was voting to remove him from office, especially an office that the entire state elected him to.
Dr. Robert Jackson:So his position is an elected position and he's elected by all the voters in South Carolina.
Sen. Shane Martin:Yes, sir, he's on the statewide ballot, the same as those the governor and the attorney general and all the ones I mentioned earlier in the podcast.
Dr. Robert Jackson:Well, now can the legislature legally oust a person elected by the electorate.
Sen. Shane Martin:Well, and again, I wasn't aware of that, I didn't think we could. But you know, someone can be impeached, but that starts in the House. But here's what. And, dr Jackson, I'm not an attorney, so I want to read this to you on your podcast because I wanted to know what was actually used. And here is what the ones that filed the resolution to remove the treasure. I'm just going to read this. Okay, this is not, this is not me. Where my words?
Sen. Shane Martin:I'm reading this okay the south carolina constitution provides for the removal of officers by joint resolution Okay cause which shall not be sufficient ground of impeachment. The governor shall remove any executive or judicial officer on the address of two-thirds of each house of the General Assembly, provided that the cause or causes for which said removal may be required shall be stated at length in such address and entered on the journals of each house, and provided further that the officer intended to be removed shall be notified of such cause or causes and shall be admitted in a hearing in his own defense or by his counsel or both, before any vote of such address and in all cases the vote shall be taken by yeas and nays and be entered into the journal of each house and it says respectively 1970, all the code sections it was in in the process for the removal. So that's how they got there. It didn't warrant an impeachment, but some people felt that it warranted doing it this way, so that's how they were able to do the task that way.
Dr. Robert Jackson:Well now do you think that there are issues with Mr Loftus that preceded this whole event?
Sen. Shane Martin:Yeah, I mean, I think there's been some issues. I think there's been some personality conflicts. But, like I said, I'm friends with the guy. I talked to him that night during one of the breaks. We were talking about what I do. He knows what I do for a living because I know the guy we were just talking about that. He seemed in good spirits. I think there's been some personality issues in certain places for some years now.
Dr. Robert Jackson:Not just personality issues, but perhaps policy issues that preceded this whole issue.
Sen. Shane Martin:And it could have been. There could have been some things that I wasn't aware of that preceded it, but you know I can't really speculate on that.
Dr. Robert Jackson:Yeah, I understand all that. I do. Well, all that's very interesting to me and I think my listeners have heard a lot of talk-talk in the community about this whole issue and I wanted to hear from a senator that was there and get a senator's perspective.
Sen. Shane Martin:Yes, sir, and again, I don't want anybody to feel that the hearing we had on Monday was a waste of time. I think it was a time for those who were saying he should be removed for them to present reasons why staff were able to actually present things that weren't just in a Senate hearing to where he was there by himself or with somebody else and was kind of at the discretion. You know, you've been in a hearing that I've chaired. I mean, we've given you plenty of leeway, but still you wouldn't argue that you were in charge, right?
Dr. Robert Jackson:That's correct when I'm chairing that meeting.
Sen. Shane Martin:Me and the committee are in charge.
Dr. Robert Jackson:That's correct.
Sen. Shane Martin:But now when I run a committee meeting, I don't treat it that way. But what I'm saying is when the treasurer came into that hearing, there were rules of that hearing and he had the floor and he could say what he wanted to and you weren't able to just ask questions or cut him off. He had the right to be heard and that's why I think that was healthy.
Dr. Robert Jackson:I got you. I got you. Well, now, this will have to go to the House now and they will hold a separate hearing. Is that correct?
Sen. Shane Martin:Well, it can. Now it goes to the House. The House can choose to do nothing or the House could take it up. The House, the way I guess the rules are. They could take this up next week. They could decide to come back on August 15th and take this up. They could come back on October 7th and take this up, but they're not obliged to well, they're not obliged to take it up, but in in the taking it up.
Sen. Shane Martin:They don't actually have to be in session to take it up. They could come in and if they thought they needed to do something, the speaker could call them back into session and they could take that up I got you all right.
Sen. Shane Martin:Well, I haven't heard anybody, I mean, but I've heard no indication other than some of the ones that were the prosecutors, if you will, at this hearing on the Senate side. They felt like that the House might want to take it up, but I have I've not heard that myself from anybody in the House.
Dr. Robert Jackson:I got you. I got you. Well, it's a very interesting and unique situation in the history of South Carolina, wouldn't you agree?
Sen. Shane Martin:I think it is. I think it is. I think the way they explained it to us was this has only happened one time, and it was 150 years ago, and it was with the current. It was with the treasurer at the time.
Dr. Robert Jackson:Oh really.
Sen. Shane Martin:What they're telling me. I didn't go look it up, I just took their word for it.
Dr. Robert Jackson:Yeah.
Sen. Shane Martin:To use the process in this manner that they did.
Dr. Robert Jackson:Yes, sir, I got you All right. Well, senator, I appreciate your perspective. I appreciate your time. I know you're a busy man, but I do appreciate you giving us some inside perspective on everything that happened.
Sen. Shane Martin:Any inside perspective on everything that happened. Any last comments? No, I just want to say that anytime that anybody has a question or wants to know something, I'll be glad to come back on your show. I'm always, as you know, you and I text together and I just want to thank you for all your help, especially when we're trying to get good conservative legislation passed or working on issues. I want to thank you for always being there to testify and just help us with data and research.
Dr. Robert Jackson:Well, thank you, sir. You're mighty kind. I always appreciate your willingness to allow me to insert a conservative medical perspective on issues All right.
Sen. Shane Martin:Well, I really appreciate it, and you have a good evening, sir.
Dr. Robert Jackson:Yes, sir, you're listening to More Than Medicine. I'm your host, dr Robert Jackson. My guest today is Senator Shane Martin. We'll be back again next week. Till then, may the Lord bless you real good.
Speaker 1:Thank you for listening to this edition of More Than Medicine. For more information about the Jackson Family Ministry, Dr Jackson's books, or to schedule a speaking engagement, go to their Facebook page, instagram or their webpage at jacksonfamilyministrycom. This podcast is produced by Bob Slone Audio Production at bobslone. com.
