More Than Medicine
More Than Medicine
Championing Pro-Life Legislation: John McCravey's Fight for the Unborn in South Carolina
What does it take to champion pro-life legislation in a politically divided landscape? Join us on More Than Medicine as we welcome John McCravey, a passionate lawyer and legislator from South Carolina, who unveils the intricate journey of the Family Caucus. This Christian conservative group has fought tirelessly to pass the Human Life Protection Act and the heartbeat bill, seeking to safeguard life from conception. Hear John's firsthand account of the legislative hurdles, strategic pivots, and how a revamped state Supreme Court played a crucial role in upholding these laws. Looking ahead, John shares the Family Caucus' determined plans to eliminate exceptions and prioritize the Human Life Protection Act in 2025, underscoring their unwavering commitment to the unborn.
But that's not all. We also address a critical issue within the Republican platform—its limited stance on abortion. Discover why many evangelicals feel let down by the party's focus on condemning late-term abortion while neglecting to affirm life from conception. Through poignant examples of disillusioned pastors and the potential ripple effect on voter turnout, we examine how the pro-life stance serves as a vital litmus test for evangelical voters. Tune in to understand the profound influence of this issue on political support within the evangelical community and its far-reaching implications on future elections. Don't miss this thought-provoking conversation that tackles one of the most passionate debates in American politics today.
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Welcome to More Than Medicine, where Jesus is more than enough for the ills that plague our culture and our country. Hosted by author and physician, dr Robert Jackson, and his wife Carlotta and daughter Hannah Miller. So listen up, because the doctor is in.
Speaker 2:Welcome to More Than Medicine. I'm your host, dr Robert Jackson, bringing to you biblical insights and stories from the country doctor's rusty, dusty scrapbook. Well, I'm delighted today to have a very special guest with me, john McCravey, who's a lawyer and a legislator in the state of South Carolina. Welcome, john, and please tell my listeners a little bit about yourself and where you come from, and please tell my listeners a little bit about yourself and where you come from.
Speaker 3:Thank you, dr Jackson. I'm just, first of all, let me just say I'm always privileged to talk to you. I consider you one of the greatest voices for life in our state and I'm always privileged to talk to you and be on your podcast.
Speaker 2:Thank you, sir.
Speaker 3:You're mighty kind to say all of that, but I'm a representative. For those who don't know me, I'm a representative from Greenwood, south Carolina. The Lord put me kind of as the moderator of what we call the Family Caucus in South Carolina, which is a Christian conservative group of legislators that come together for fellowship and we attempt to pass Christian conservative legislation in our state, and we've been very successful. You know, the Lord has blessed us over these last seven years we've been in existence. We've passed, you know, dozens of bills really, and one of those is the heartbeat bill we've had to pass twice. We've passed the Human Life Protection Act twice, but unfortunately the Senate fell two votes short, so we're looking forward to prosecuting that again this year.
Speaker 2:Now tell me a little bit about that Human Life Protection Act and how strong of a bill that was.
Speaker 3:Well, going back to 2022, when Dobbs overturned Roe v Wade, the Speaker, who was also pro-life, the Speaker of the House asked me, the Chair of Committee, to draft the final bill for South Carolina on abortion, and what we drafted was a bill that would protect all life back to conception, without exception, except for life of the mother and serious bodily health. And we drafted that bill and that's the bill that's passed twice in the House of Representatives, not without amendment. But other exceptions were added for sexual assault, which I disagree with, also for, you know, handicapped children, which I disagree with, and you know so. But nevertheless it would take the bill, it would take the law back to conception, protecting our children back to conception. So we drafted that bill, we passed it. I took it through the subcommittee in the House in a special session in 2022. We took it to the full House in a special session just for that bill.
Speaker 3:They turned around instead of passing it, they amended it to make it the old heartbeat bill which we had already passed. We disagreed with that, we nodded and concurred. We went to a conference committee and in another special session it failed by two votes in the Senate. Senator Cash was instrumental in fighting for that bill in the Senate. He did a great job on the floor. He gave one of the best speeches you'll ever hear for pro-life on the floor of the Senate and it swayed a few votes, but not enough. So then the next year, just to give you a little bit of history and I know I'm probably giving you more than you want- no, no, no.
Speaker 2:I think my listeners would like to hear all this.
Speaker 3:Well, we passed it again in 2023, and we sent it to the Senate again. This time, they refused to take it up. Instead, they passed the heartbeat bill again and sent it to us, and we were at a stalemate. And so, at the very end of the session, we decided look, we cannot be a state. Our heartbeat bill had been declared, our previous one had been declared unconstitutional by a court that was liberal. We changed the court. The court was changed to a conservative court, but nevertheless we felt like we needed to amend that heartbeat bill. But at the very end of the session, we gave in, amended the heartbeat bill, but part the human life protection act failed again in the senate, this time by one vote. To adjourn they. They finally took it up. It failed we. We ended up passing their heartbeat bill and we changed the language made, made it more strict, made some of the other things. We tightened it up, banned any funds going to Planned Parenthood, etc. Etc. And that bill was passed to keep us just from being an abortion destination state.
Speaker 2:Right, I remember that.
Speaker 3:So we passed that bill again and that bill was held to be constitutional by our reconstituted state Supreme Court. So part of the deal with the Senate and I don't mind saying this is that the Senate agreed, after this election coming up in November next year, that we would be able to bring up the Human Life Protection Act again, protecting life back to conception, and we're going to pay. That's going to be the Family Caucus' number one priority in 2025. The Family Caucus is the number one priority in 2025. It's going to be. I predict it'll take some work but it'll pass through the House and I predict the Senate will take it up and we may now have the votes after this election to pass that bill. So that's where we are. This coming year will be the honor of my life to try to get that bill through.
Speaker 2:I hear you, I hear you. Well, it's going to be a different House and a different Senate, isn't it?
Speaker 3:That's right. That's right. And you know we'll start out and I believe in no exceptions, except for the life of the mother. I don't believe it's the child's fault that her mother was criminally assaulted. I don't think you take it out on an innocent person. That's right. And the same way with physical handicaps that are noted in the womb. You know you may not have an arm or a leg, but hey, there's a lot of good children out there that don't have an arm so you don't kill a handicapped child.
Speaker 2:I've got two special needs children, so that's a very sensitive topic for me and my wife.
Speaker 3:Yes, sir.
Speaker 2:Well, listen, I want you to know, john, I appreciate you and legislators like yourself that fight tooth and nail to protect the lives of unborn children, and I'm going to be praying for you guys and you ladies in the House and the Senate in this next session, and I trust my listeners will be out there lifting you up in the name of the Lord when this session comes. Well, I've got a couple of other questions I want to ask you about. Yes, you about.
Speaker 2:In my last week's podcast, I talked to Lisa Van Ryper about this whole issue, about the Republican National Convention modifying their party platform in regards to the whole pro-life issue and the statements that they have made about pro-life issues, and so I wanted to ask you as well. I mean, you're pretty astute about what goes on in the Republican Party, both in our state and nationally, and, of course, you have strong convictions about pro-life issues, and so I wanted to pick your brain a little bit about what has transpired at the national level in the Republican National Convention and, as you know, trump's campaign pretty much controls everything at the Republican National Convention and so I wanted to ask you do you think that their move to modify and abbreviate the pro-life part of the platform Is that a wise strategic move, john, on their part, or will it alienate and anger the evangelical right? What do you think about all that?
Speaker 3:Well, I think it's. I believe that it's going to have consequences that they did not anticipate. So I think they did it. And, of course, if we have a binary choice, which we're going to have, we have to elect Donald Trump no matter what, because we cannot stand four more years of Joe Biden, and he's about as evil as they get. That's right. So, especially when it comes to attacking life and if it were up to them, they would enact a national right to abortion at any stage of life You're right the contrast is clear.
Speaker 3:But nevertheless, I'm disappointed in the platform that they actually adopted, and I think a lot of people are, you know. The only thing that they condemned was late-term abortion. Well, you know, my Democratic opponent here in Greenwood agrees with that, you know, but he wants to kill them, kill babies at an earlier time. So I don't think that that was was a really good statement. It was a weak statement on abortion. There was nothing about life beginning at conception, nothing that the word unborn was not even mentioned, and so so I think it was a very weak statement. And what that's done, you know it's it's.
Speaker 3:There were many people who fought hard since the middle 80s to get this in the platform. What was already in there that mentioned life, that protected, wanted to protect the unborn children, and so this is kind of a retreat from that. I know it's done for political reasons. Obviously they want to try to get the Trump wants to try to get the suburban women who think abortion is okay, and I realize that. But I think what it's done and what it's doing is there's still time to change it.
Speaker 2:There's still got to vote on it at the whole convention.
Speaker 3:Right, it's got to be approved by the whole convention and I know our delegates are probably not going to vote for it, but nevertheless, what it's done. I've talked to several pastors out there, you know. I mean I've got calls about this. I've fielded all kinds of questions and I'll give you two examples. One pastor told me he said John, I'm just going to be honest with you. Told me, he said John, I'm just going to be honest with you, I'm going to walk in that booth and I'm not going to vote for president this year, because I cannot vote for a president who doesn't believe in life. And you know that's scary.
Speaker 2:That's scary because Trump needs every single vote he can get in state particularly in the battleground states. He cannot afford to lose votes from evangelical right.
Speaker 3:That's right. And so that's one pastor who's not going to stand up and go tell his people to go vote. He's not going to be excited about it and he's a good conservative pastor. So there's one example. I talked to another pastor who said John, I'm going to go vote and I feel like I've got to go vote for Trump because we can't have Biden in there. But he said I'm not going to be excited about it. I'm not going to put a Trump sticker on my car. I'm not going to be excited about it. I'm not going to put a trump sticker on my car. I'm not going to get out and ask people and get involved. He said but I'm going to go vote for trump.
Speaker 3:Well, there's your excitement factor, that's right, so to me you know, 59 percent, from what I understand, 59 percent of trump's hardcore supporters are pro-life Christian conservatives.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and to alienate that group at this crucial time to me is an unforced error. Yeah, that's right, so I don't like it. I can tell you I'm going to go vote for Trump and I think we have to.
Speaker 2:But you don't want people out there holding their nose when they go to the polling booth.
Speaker 3:It dampens the enthusiasm.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it does.
Speaker 3:And that's something that's a I mean people call it the X factor. To me that's an intangible that you can't measure, but it's so important in a campaign excitement because it multiplies.
Speaker 2:It does.
Speaker 3:You know, if you're excited you'll get on your contacts, like I did for Senator Billy Garrett here in Greenwood, who's pro-life in the Senate, and I got on my contacts and I called 185 people in the runoff a couple days before the runoff because I was excited. That's right. I was motivated Exactly, and that kind of motivation is going to be lacking from a large portion. Yeah, if we have this kind of backing up on what's right.
Speaker 2:You're right. You're exactly right, john, I know exactly what you said. Because all of a sudden, all of a sudden, I don't want to wear my Trump hat. I mean, I got a Trump hat that I wear just about everywhere I go for the last I don't know. Four to four to eight years I've had it and all of a sudden I'm like man, I don't know if I want to wear this in public and that's that hurts my heart it does.
Speaker 3:It hurts my heart too. Um, and, and I don't want it to affect who gets elected, you know, I think we've got the. You know the Republican Party needs to, you know needs to recognize this, and I think it's. I don't think the lack, I think the lack of enthusiasm may outweigh the few votes that he gets as a result of this. Well, and see, they don't understand.
Speaker 2:They don't understand that the abortion issue is the litmus test for evangelicals. They don't understand that it's the top priority issue for evangelicals.
Speaker 3:And they call us one-issue voters. We're not one-issue voters, but that one issue is the first issue. It is you know the right to life is the first civil right, that's right, no other rights matter, that's right If you don't have life.
Speaker 2:the rest of the— If you lose your right to life is the first civil right. That's right. No other rights matter. That's right. If you don't have life, the rest of the—.
Speaker 3:If you lose your right to life, freedom of speech doesn't matter.
Speaker 2:That's right. You don't have any other rights if you don't have life.
Speaker 3:That's right.
Speaker 2:Exactly.
Speaker 3:And so that's why it's so important to Christian conservatives and that's why it is a—you know that particular issue is an all or nothing issue. I mean, if you don't, if you're not for life, you're not going to get the vote of Christian conservatives. That's right. And when you have a choice, we're not going to have a choice for the presidential election. But if this was a primary and Trump had come out and said this is his position, the same position we're having, this campaign position, I think he would have lost a lot of votes.
Speaker 2:He would have. All right. Let me ask you another question. Some people say his move to cast this pro-life issue back to the states because of the 14th Amendment is not just constitutional, but it's very realistic, since there's no national momentum to abolish or curtail abortion at the federal level.
Speaker 3:What say you, John?
Speaker 2:McCravey.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I agree with that. Except the question really is it's not. You know, he's stating a fact when he says it's gone back to the states. That's a fact, that's what the Supreme Court has done and that's where it's going to stay, and so I don't think that the debate on the federal issue and all that thing is really relevant now. I would agree with him on that, but to just say that it's gone back to the states without taking a position on what's right and wrong is the problem. Yep, you're right.
Speaker 3:You know he, he needs to, he needs. The republicans need to take a stand on this like they have in the past. The republican national party needs to come around and do what our state party has done you know our state platform has changed since Dobbs too.
Speaker 3:But it starts out by saying we believe that the right to life is the first inalienable right, and then it talks about human life and that the Fourth Amendment protection 14th Amendment protection applies to unborn children. Yes, so you know we take a strong stand in South Carolina. We also say public funds should not be used for abortion. The process of coming up with a statement about life is important. Your platform is important, and that's what I think is lacking here. What they've done, what the Trump's campaign consultants have done, is they've turned the platform into a campaign statement.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, and it's so wishy-washy and vanilla that it stinks.
Speaker 3:That's right. So you need to take a stand. You know in politics, the worst thing you can do is be weak. That's right. You know you need to take a stand on what's right and stick with it.
Speaker 2:And the other thing is Trump is the national cheerleader. He is the national cheerleader on the moral and ethical issues, the financial issues, the economic issues, every issue out there, and he cannot be weak on the moral and ethical issue of the day that fires up the evangelical right, which is the pro-life issue, that fires up the evangelical right which is the pro-life issue, and if he's just going to be plain vanilla and try to evade that issue altogether, he's going to lose the enthusiasm and the support of the evangelical right Now.
Speaker 2:For a time there he did all the right things, you know. He went to the Washington Mall for the Right to Life March. He was the only president that's ever been there.
Speaker 3:That's right.
Speaker 2:And he used to talk pro-life talk really strong, but then all of a sudden, now he's reversed course and he's become. He just got this little pablum plain vanilla talk and made the platform to reflect that and I'm just telling you he shot himself in the foot this week. Well, his people have. Now he can reverse course and make it right, but he better hurry up.
Speaker 3:I agree with you. You know, looking back on this, you know, I think you know, pence, his vice president, was his conscience when it came to pro-life issues. That's right, that's right and he lost Pence, and he lost his conscience. Did you see that?
Speaker 2:Pence this week was highly critical of all of that. He made his own statement this week criticizing Donald Trump for not being stronger on this issue.
Speaker 3:I know, and I hope, and what I'm praying is that somebody like Pence, god will rise up. Raise up somebody like Pence who has his ear.
Speaker 2:Yep. It's a Christian, a true conservative, that that he will listen to yeah, he needs somebody like that in his campaign and I obviously he doesn't have that person right now that's right, and you know there are very few christian campaign consultants.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you know, I've been in, I've I've gotten to know this world a little bit and and there are very few. Most of them are out to win. Most of them are, you know, what I would call the successful ones are ruthless. Yeah, yeah, so I'm not trashing all campaign consultants.
Speaker 3:There's some good christian campaign consultants and I admire them yeah yeah, but the vast, I don't want to say the vast majority are not, and so it's a tough world in that campaign world, and you know, the most successful consultants don't care what they do, and so we've got to hope and pray.
Speaker 2:We've got to do a lot of praying, don't we, john? He listens to you. We need to do a lot of praying for President Trump soon to be President Trump and his campaign and his advisors.
Speaker 3:That's right.
Speaker 2:Look, our time is up, John, and I want to thank you for being on More Than Medicine. I thank you for your insights, I thank you for your willingness to work so hard down in Columbia in the legislature on pro-life issues and I hope my listeners will pray for John McCravey and the Family Caucus and all the wonderful work that you guys are doing down there.
Speaker 3:Well, thank you, dr Jackson, it's an honor.
Speaker 2:All right, well, thank you. You're listening to More Than Medicine. I'm your host, dr Robert Jackson. My guest today is John McCravey, and, john, I hope you'll come back and be with us again on More Than Medicine.
Speaker 3:Be glad to do it.
Speaker 2:All right. Thank you, sir, and that's the end of our program for today. We'll be back again next week. May the Lord bless you real good.
Speaker 1:Thank you for listening to this edition of More Than Medicine. For more information about the Jackson Family Ministry, dr Jackson's books, or to schedule a speaking engagement, go to their Facebook page, instagram or their webpage at jacksonfamilyministrycom. This podcast is produced by Bob Sloan Audio Production at bobsloancom.
