
More Than Medicine
More Than Medicine
DWDP: Embracing Kingdom Living – The Journey to Authentic Faith with Dr. Hank Williams (Part One)
Embark on a spiritual odyssey with me, Dr. Robert Jackson, joined by the insightful Dr. Hank Williams, as we navigate the rich terrain of Kingdom living in the here and now, yet with an eye towards the fullness of God's promise. Our conversation is a tapestry woven with tales of Dr. Williams' transformative journey to Boiling Springs First Baptist Church and an examination of the profound teachings of Jesus. Step into a space where the wisdom of the Sermon on the Mount challenges us to live in the tension between the present and the eternal, to be peacemakers, and to seek a deeper happiness that transcends mere earthly pleasure.
Together with Dr. Williams, we unravel the beauty of adopting a kingdom mindset, where life's 'big rocks' are more than just priorities—they are the very essence of our existence. Discover the paradoxical bliss of being 'poor in spirit' and the joy that emerges from fostering peace and love in a community. This dialogue is an invitation to a life of authenticity, a call to embrace the upside-down values of God's Kingdom, and a reminder that humble service can reshape the world. Join us for a powerful session that will not only fortify your faith but also redefine your pursuit of true contentment.
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Welcome to More Than Medicine, where Jesus is more than enough for the ills that plague our culture and our country. Hosted by author and physician, dr Robert Jackson.
Speaker 2:Papa, can you tell me a story? Do you really want me to tell you a story? Well, you go, get your brother and your sisters and I will tell you a story. Welcome to Devotions with Dr Papa. Gather around, grab your Bible so that we can look into the written word, which reveals to us the living word which is our Lord Jesus Christ.
Speaker 2:Well, if you've been with me for the last few weeks, you know that we've been talking about the upside down house. We've been talking about the values and principles of the kingdom of God, which are opposite of the values and principles of the kingdom of this world. Well, I have a privilege today to have in the studio with me my good friend and my pastor, dr Hank Williams. About two years ago, he preached a series at our church, at Boyle and Springs First Baptist Church, on already, not yet Now. What in the world does that mean, pastor Hank? I'm going to throw it open to you, and first I want you to tell my listening audience a little bit about yourself and how in the world you came to be at Boyle and Springs First Baptist Church, and then I want you to share with the audience what in the world does already not yet mean in reference to the kingdom of God.
Speaker 3:So take it away, brother. Thanks, dr Jackson. Hey, it's great to be with you again and appreciate the ministry that you have, both through this means and through so many other areas of speaking and preaching and writing. You challenged me with your writing, so appreciate your example. Yeah, I've been at Boyle and Springs. I'm in my 19th year as pastor at Boyle and Springs. Prior to that, for 20 years I was an itinerant evangelist doing harvest events, largely internominational, citywide events, just preaching the gospel.
Speaker 3:And interesting, just a little funny story I was in Dallas, texas. We had an office in Dallas and a guy from the church here whose name is Bert Lancaster, called up my wife, mary, and answered the phone and he said this is Bert Lancaster, I'd like to talk to Hank Williams. So my wife thought it was my friends, as they would often call and say, hey, this is Willie Nelson, you know, this is whoever. And she said. He said, ma'am, I promise this is Bert Lancaster, calling from Boyle Springs, south Carolina. I'll talk to Hank Williams in Dallas, texas. And so she took the phone and said have no idea of it here. And so that began a journey for us. Now that led us here to be the pastor and love this place, love this community, blessed and honored to do that, and feel like I've had the best of both worlds, because I've got to do see harvest ministry for 20 years and now I'm in my 19th year. Next September will be our 20th anniversary of being pastoral and shepherding people and seeing people grow as disciples and the faith, and so it's really been an incredible joy and journey.
Speaker 3:And so I did this series a number of years ago on already, not yet and it was we were to places at church. We were saying, hey, what can we do to we live in this tension right Between those two things? The kingdom has already been inaugurated and we celebrate this season the advent, and that is the coming of Christ, the announcement of Christ, all the fulfillment of the prophecies and the promises of the Old Testament are now met in Jesus and he brings in. His first sermon was repent for the kingdom of heaven, as it hand. John the Baptist first sermon was repent for the kingdom of heaven as it. So. Jesus brought in, inaugurated the breakthrough of the kingdom of heaven in his own life and his own teaching, and so he inaugurated the kingdom of heaven on earth and so but that's so. We've already experienced the kingdom and those of us who know Jesus Christ. He's our king and we are. We are his kingdom People, and so we're to proclaim his kingdom message and be on his kingdom mission and do everything we can to advance his kingdom purposes. But we have not yet received the fulfillment of all of his kingdom when he when, all things would be made right and all things will be made new at the second advent, the second coming of Jesus Christ. So we're in between those two events of the first and the second. So we've already experienced the first advent and we're looking for the second advent, at which time all things will be made right and made new. And so, in that tension in between the already, not yet, what does it mean to be people of the kingdom? What does it mean to be the kingdom people Really?
Speaker 3:A text that deals with that more than I think anything else. It's the red letters found in Matthew, those chapters 5, 6, and 7, that are known as the Sermon on the Mount. Jesus, you talked about that phrase upside down man. That's so true. I say this message is an upside down message to help us to live right side up, and Jesus is going to speak a language that really is a kingdom language that His disciples and those who are listening to Him. It would have been alien to their ears, to their understanding, it would have been indirect opposite of their values in many ways, of their purposes and their life directives. And so it really was an earth-shattering, it really was a tsunami of teaching. Now that would show them what the kingdom of heaven looks like, through Jesus' life and through His teaching.
Speaker 3:A great scholar, james Stewart, wrote a book called the Life and Teaching of Jesus, and he said every new idea that has ever burst upon the world has had a watchword. Always there's been some word of phrase in which that very genius of the thing has been concentrated and focused, some word of phrase to blaze in on its banners when it went marching out into the world, something to wave like a flag, to rally the ranks and to win recruits. The greatest idea that has ever been born upon the earth is the Christian idea, and Christianity came with a watchword, magnificent and mighty and imperial, and the watchword was the kingdom of God. And so the kingdom of God has come in Jesus Christ and we're to be kingdom people. So that's sort of the already, not yet. And then we just look at those teachings there in the great Sermon on the Mount.
Speaker 2:Well, I tell you, when I share with some of my patients some of the principles that Jesus teaches in the Sermon on the Mount, they look at me like I have two heads, like I'm an alien from another planet, and they just stare at me like are you for real, dr Jackson? Because the teachings that Jesus shared with his disciples and his followers on the Sermon on the Mount are so opposite, so upside down from the teachings and the principles that this world abides by, and it really is upside down. And my patients will look at me like you're not for real. You're really not asking me to do that, are you? And you know well, go ahead, preacher, tell us what some of these principles are.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you know, I think probably the key verse to that whole kingdom mindset is Matthew, chapter six, verse 33, that we're all familiar with. Seek ye first the kingdom of God. Put the right priority in the right place in our hearts. Is Jesus first, is he king, is he Lord of all in our lives? And he said first his kingdom and his righteousness and all these things will be added unto you. That's really the kingdom mindset begins with making sure that Jesus Christ is first.
Speaker 3:You know, I remember the story that was told about this guy that was saying about priorities and he talks about how he put a wide mouth of jar before the people and he said now there's a pile of rocks and there's sand and there's gravel. And he said he said if you put these big rocks in, you put all the sand and the gravel in first, then there's not room to put the big rocks in. And he says you know it's important, but if you put the big rocks in first, then you can put the. He did that, he demonstrated that the students. He put all the big rocks in and he said is it full? And they all said yes, it's full. You can't put anymore in.
Speaker 3:You took the gravel and poured it around the big rocks and then he said to the class is it full? And they all said yes, it's full. And then he pulled up this container of sand and he poured the whole container of sand and he said is it full? And they all said yes, it's full. And he said no. They said no, it's not full. He said yes, it's actually full.
Speaker 3:And but he said, said, if you hadn't put the big rocks in first, you couldn't have put any of the rest in and those other things, the sand and the gravel alive. If we make sure that we seek first His kingdom and so that is really the heart of the kingdom mindset is to seek His kingdom first. But, Jesus, I love what Dietrich Bonhoeffer said about the Sermon on the Mount. He said it's not a statement to be treated in a cavalier fashion by saying this is or this isn't right, or that we here find an inconsistency. Its validity depends on its being obeyed. This is not a statement that we can freely choose to take or leave. It is compelling. It is a Lordly statement. In other words, it's a mandate. This is the mandate for all Christians. This is not a suggestion. This is not a sort of optional for believers. This is the new kingdom value system, new kingdom character that we're doing body, that Jesus Christ is teaching.
Speaker 3:And he uses that word, Macarius, that word blessed. How blessed are we? Blessed are the more those who whom, more blessed are the poor in spirit. And and that word blessed we all. We amen that because we want to be blessed and that word means to be, not in a sense that superficial, not in a in a sense that the temporary things of the world that give us momentary satisfaction and joy. It's not a sort of giddy happiness, it's a deep rooted in the depths of our being, in the soul of who we are, that understanding that all is well, it's the blessing of the presence of God, it's a blessing and the smile of God in our lives. And so he says that's when, so blessed. I'm sure they all were like we're with you, Jesus, we're on board, we're all in.
Speaker 3:And then he says blessed are the poor. And I'm sure that immediately that would have struck, as you said, such a contradiction, such an alien sound in their ears. And they're looking at each other saying what did he say? What are you that we're supposed to be poor? Why would we want to be poor? And it's really a word. There are nine words in the Greek language that speak of being poor or suffering. This is the most severe one. It really means to be a beggar.
Speaker 2:No way.
Speaker 3:That's what the word poor here means. It means to be beggars. As a matter of fact, when someone was literally so destitute that they could not in any way provide for themselves, they were forced then to live a life where they'd sit around, and we see that in the text of scripture, where those who were just beggars Begging for alms.
Speaker 3:But this picture of this person. They're embarrassed, they're ashamed, and so they would have one hand over their face and the other hand out asking and their head would be bowed. They would be so embarrassed, so humiliated. It's that awareness that I am impoverished in myself, that I am unable in myself to accomplish anything for the kingdom. It's that kingdom of awareness that says, in light of who he is, I recognize I am so poor, I'm impoverished in spirit, I'm spiritually in poverty, in need of him, in desperate need of him. It's that we are beggars that desperately need his blessing. And in his ablement in order to be a loved one pastor, he was voted in his area the most humble pastor and his people were proud of him and they gave him a little pin to wear that said the most humble pastor in the area and they gave it to him one week and then they took it away the next week, cause he wore it to church Really didn't reflect that spirit of humility.
Speaker 3:It's like Muhammad Ali. You may remember the story, muhammad Ali the great boxer, champion boxer. He got on an airplane one time and he sat down and the stewardess came by and didn't call his name, just said sir, you need to buckle your seat belt. And he, in his bombastic way, he said Superman, don't need a seat belt. And she said well, superman doesn't need a plane, that's right, you need to buckle up your seat belt. And so? But this word blessed are the poor in spirit. It means blessed are those who are humble. Blessed are those who have a recognition of their own need in light of his great glory and are willing to humble themselves before the Lord. Great missionary to China, robert Morrison, said this the world has yet to see what could happen if everyone lost the desire to get the glory. He said wouldn't it be marvelous if nobody wanted credit? And that's the spirit of that humbling ourselves.
Speaker 3:As James, chapter 4, verse 10, says before, the blessed are those who are willing to recognize their spiritual poverty and their need of his presence. But then the result of that is that they will, they blessed the poor in spirit for theirs as a kingdom of heaven. And what he means is by that is that God will pour out his riches, his heavenly riches, into the heart and soul and life of someone who has that spirit of humility. That spirit of humility reflects, of course, jesus, who humbled himself, even in the form of a servant. It's the opposite of prideful spirit. And so the humility is a spirit that recognizes a dependence on the grace of God, whereas pride is a spirit that recognizes its own self and its own way and is self-sufficient.
Speaker 3:And so that's just the first of those. But it says they'll receive the fruit of the spirit. They'll be filled with love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness and self-control all those things, those who have a recognition. So we're truly blessed when we recognize and we're humbled before him, and then we receive the riches of heaven. The second one is a blessing of morning. He said bless for those who mourn, for they shall be comforted, and the mourning, here again, that Jesus is talking about is not a poor, pitiful me.
Speaker 3:Some people's favorite hymn is nobody knows the trouble I've seen.
Speaker 3:That's their favorite hymn and they have that picture of that little boy said he went and spent a week with his grandparents out one summer and everything you want to do something fun. His grandfather said son, don't do that, christians don't act that way. He wanted to throw the ball, he wanted to make noise, he wanted to do what little boys do. And finally he was walking along outside and kind of just frustrated because he couldn't have any fun. And he saw a horse out there jumping around, full of life, and he said man, you must be a Christian because you must not be a Christian because you're having too much fun. And he went down and saw a little calf, newly born. Said man, you must not be a Christian because you're having too much fun. And then he saw this old, floppy, old mule that was just laying in the shade on a hot sunny day, and just worthless old beast. He said you must be a Christian because you act just like my grandpa. So that's. He's not saying bless for those who mourn, who go around moping and disheartened and depressed and discredited. Life's not fair. That's not the spirit at all. Again, it's a spirit of mournful sorrow over sin. It's a, it's a grieving of our sin and a need to recognize contrition. It's a contrite spirit. Martin Luther said this. This word here is a, is a is a present participle in the Greek. And Martin Luther said in his 95 thesis. He said the Christians entire life is a continuous act of repentance and contrition. And so Jesus said blessed are those who continue to be aware of their simpleness and recognize their need for the enablement of the Holy Spirit.
Speaker 3:I think about those two passages, one in the Old Testament and one in the New Testament. You remember Isaiah, chapter six, when Isaiah said I saw the Lord high and lifted up and this train filled the temple and it was the glory of God, manifest Isaiah. Isaiah didn't say man, listen, let me get up, let me join you, let me hang in the presence of the holiness of God, the glory of God. He fell in his face and wept and cried out. And what were his words? Woe is me. That's a spirit of mourning in my own grief, contrite, I'm a man of unclean lips in the light of your holiness, all of us are sinners in the light of that, and it's that recognition.
Speaker 3:And Paul, I think, echoes that same sentiment in Romans when he says wretched man that I am. I mean, this is the apostle Paul. But he recognized, he said what I want to do, I don't do what I don't do. What I want to do. I don't do what I don't want to do, I do. Who will deliver me from this body of death? Oh, wretched man that I am. And so that's the word.
Speaker 3:Mourn is to have a spirit of contrition and the need to continually be in a repentant spirit in light of his glory, in light of his holiness. And so he says those who, those who are willing to bless, or those who mourn for today, should be comforted. And again, that means they shall find an inner sense of help and enablement by the Holy Spirit. The pair clay, pair clay tosses the word for the Holy Spirit, and that's the word here. They'll be helped, those that will be blessed with all that they have need of. They'll find inner strength and comfort for their journey if they have a spirit where they are blessed and mourned in a way that recognizes them, that recognizes their need of his presence and his power. And so those are just a few of the blessings that we see.
Speaker 3:And again Jesus goes on and teaching. It's the longest sermon that Jesus taught in all of his teaching to his disciples, and it was a hard, hard sermon. The third one there is blessed are the, blessed are the meek, blessed are the gentle. But they shall hear at the earth and again, you can imagine in that culture and in our culture that would have been something not well received.
Speaker 3:You know, we look to the strong man, the one who's proud, the one who's self, you know, has this self-confidence, and this one who boasts. We like that. You know, the more braggadocia, the more you know vibrato, we think man, the more we're to be admired.
Speaker 3:And here is Jesus again, turning all that upside down to live right side up and say blessed are those Deeply, internally, well, are those who have a sense that meekness and gentleness and that spirit that again recognizes a. It's a spirit, that word meek there means to be submissive, it means to be tenderhearted and to recognize again the blessings of the Lord. You think about those great offensive linemen. They're always the ones that are overlooked and the only times their name are ever really called is when they're off sides or they are, they hold or something. I mean they get so low but those are the biggest guys on the team, but they have to get the lowest, they have to get the lowest down there on the line of scrimmage. And that's the spirit, if we want to, you know.
Speaker 3:We know that John the Baptist said I must decrease, that he must increase, and that's that spirit of meekness, that I am low, I recognize, that I humble myself in submission to him in order to glorify him. And he said they will inherit the earth. And that's that speaks I think of that already, but not yet of the future reign that will reign with Christ. But it also speaks again of his reigning in us now and having a sense of security in him and be blessed with that knowledge and that enablement for it to serve his kingdom purposes in a way that honors and glorifies him. So those are just a few of those principles, those kingdom principles that come out of that text and out of Jesus Sermon on the Mount, that, I think, challenge us and we need reminders. We need, I need those reminders on a regular basis. I love the, the blessed or the peacemakers, yeah, and again we live in a world where, again, peace seems to be something that we are not nearly. We don't strive. You know, the Bible says as much as it lies within me that I'm to be at peace with all men and you know I always talk to people. They'll. You know Jesus said this what were you if all men speak well of you, doc? I don't imagine that the 3,500 members of Bullying Springs First Revenue Church said they all speak well of me. And I always tell people I don't want to be wowed by Jesus, because Jesus said what were you if everybody speaks well of you? Yes, and so I recognize that we don't want everybody that necessarily speak well of us. But I think that when people ask me, what do you, how do you deal with people that you, you have a to confront or you have to respond to how can you be a peacemaker? And again, being a person of peace and being a peacemaker in the body of Christ is so powerful and so important.
Speaker 3:You know, and I always, I always tell people that the process I try to go through, based on the Matthew 6, you know text and Matthew 18, and is just talking about, first of all, examining my own heart before the Lord and asking myself is my motive? Love is my motive in feeling this way or desiring to in some way confront this person, is truly my motive, love? And, to be honest with you, if I really do that in a genuine way, that takes some time because I have to examine my own heart and make sure that there's nothing seeped in there that would soil my spirit toward that person and cause something in me to not have a pure motivation of love for the Lord and love for that person. So that's the first question that I wanna ask and I think if we do that in an authentic way, a lot of those situations take care of themselves and the Lord shows me. I just need to really get my heart right about the situation and it wasn't something I needed to publicly deal with. But the second thing I'll always ask is is the betterment of that person my desire? If I were to go to them, my motive is love is my genuine outcome that I'm hoping for, that I'm doing all this for, truly for their betterment. So they're gonna be stronger, they're gonna be better, they're gonna grow. It's gonna be a blessing to them, it's gonna advance their spiritual journey.
Speaker 3:And again, when we oftentimes feel offended or we take things personally, or we feel we've been wounded or we've been hurt in some way by people's words or actions, our tendencies to react, our tendencies wanna get, even our tendencies wanna seek vengeance, our tendencies want to do something in a way that exacts on them something that we feel so that they hurt people, hurt people. But really asking that question is it the betterment of that person? I mean, those are kingdom mindsets that Jesus embodied. And then the third thing I always try to ask is is will this be for the edification of the body? Will?
Speaker 3:the body of Christ be better, because I do this in a motive of love, with the right spirit for the betterment of that person Will the body of Christ be stronger?
Speaker 3:Will the body be edified? Because that's the purpose of the body to edify one another, to help one another grow stronger. So when I go through that process as a peacemaker and I search my own heart and I make sure that there's nothing in me that is harboring or that is in any way giving life to cancerous attitudes that would be ungodward and I get to that place where I truly go through that, then I find, generally God gives me the grace to share with that person and it's not always received in a way that I would like or the outcomes. I can't control the outcome, but I can control the spirit that I go. And so, just again, blessed are the peacemakers and they'll see God and there'll be a reflection of the Prince of Peace as we seek to be peacemakers. So again, it's obviously three chapters that turned the world upside down and gave meaning to the phrase kingdom of God and was embodied perfectly in the King of Kings the.
Speaker 3:Lord of Lords and Jesus himself.
Speaker 2:That's amazing. It's good teaching, brother, because those are upside down principles, aren't they? They're upside down principles and when we apply those principles in our own lives, obviously our life will be upside down compared to our lost neighbor, our lost co-worker, our lost family member. When we live by the principles taught in the Sermon on the Mount, our life will, of necessity, be very different from the life of folks who live by the principles of the kingdom of this world. And sometimes we'll be ridiculed, sometimes our life will offend, but the promises that will be blessed, jesus said down deep in our soul. We'll experience satisfaction, the blessing of God. So well, you're listening to More Than Medicine, and my host, my guest today, has been Dr Hank Williams, who is my pastor and my friend, and I'm satisfied. Well, I'm delighted to have him as my guest today and he's talking to us today about already not yet which are principles of the kingdom of God, and he's gonna be with us again next week and I hope you tune in and listen once again to More Than Medicine.
Speaker 1:Thank you for listening to this edition of More Than Medicine. For more information about the Jackson Family Ministry, dr Jackson's books or to schedule a speaking engagement, go to their Facebook page, instagram or their webpage at JacksonFamilyMinistrycom. This podcast is produced by Bob Sloan Audio Production at bobsloancom.